Thanks Joseph for the great article Men meat the challenge on the web site this morning. It’s amazing to see how many great ideas there are out there.

I had a look at the ‘A is for Ale...’ web site too and noticed on their forum a comment from a guy which I think cuts right to the heart of getting blokes to church:

Life with kids makes it way too hard to get to church. The last thing I want to do on my Sundays is to drag the wife and kids off to a church to sing songs and be preached to!

The experience we are offering blokes at ‘church’ is very different to the one we offer at these great blokes ‘events’.

What responses do people have to the forum comment above?

We need to realise that the aim is to ensure that people are part of a Christian fellowship not church.

Also it will take some level of spiritual growth before people realise the main point of church.

One-on-one and small group discipleship of men is key in my mind.

I think we have to let Men be Men.  Men crave robust and real relationships with other Men.  A real, robust and genuine relationship that stimulates their interests is a key to getting Men to Church. 

Churches have plenty to cater for women, Ginger Bread House Making for Christmas, Womens Only Nights, Craft Evenings, Singing etc.  But what do we have for Men?

I know that many Churches do have “Mens Ministry”.  Are these Churches holding onto the Men who attend and increasing the numbers with each event?  This is a real challenge and not one that can be solved without intense prayer and a spirit of commitment to the cause.  Men see through tokenism very quickly and if they do not feel a genuine connection simply do not come back. So if you are not genuinely committed beyond just the “good idea” stage, do not bother you may do more bad then good.  Men may come and dip the toe in the pool but if they do not like it they won’t be back and they will tell others not to come. Better to wait until you get someone on the team with a real solid commitment for this type of ministry because Men take time to put the guard down and trust.

The best way to see if your Church caters for men is simply to look around at who is there. It is blunt and simplistic, but none the less a simple measure from which you can set a benchmark and move forward.

The first step may often be a men’s Bible study group or something similiar.

I know that we are not alone to find that where kids have been along to well run Sunday School activities, it is often the children dragging the parents along to church.

I don’t think the solution for getting men to come to church and keeping them coming to church lies with holding one-off events. Yes, the sermon can be boring and the singing a bit to effeminate for many blokes. I believe that there are number of problems here.

1.  The expectation that church is meant to be entertaining. Sometimes the sermon is hard yakka because one the listener is not that motivated, what the minister is preaching on is actually a difficult concept or what the minister is preaching on is some nasty sin the listener is involved in
2.  Most males are not involved in the primary teaching of their children and perhaps wives the Bible. Many believe their job is finished when they drop their family at the church door on Sunday’s. Perhaps one could be involved in a whole church Sunday School day, where the whole church turns up to Sunday school
3.  Routinely advertise Ministry Opportunities and things people can do to help. Often I hear people complain at church that not enough people are willing to help and I think it is because people don’t know where the need it. Also if the skill is specialised offer to train people (for example doing the sound desk).
4.  Start a church Cricket team or basketball team (and aspire to flatten a similar team from the neighbouring parish) or perhaps a car club, or music lessons for those would be rockstars occupying the pews in your church.
5.  For the church geeks perhaps start an “Advanced” Bible study group. Study of Greek need not be confined to the hallowed halls of Moore College! Or start a computer club etc etc. I get the impression that guys will like challenging themselves both physically and intellectually
6.  Have interesting and regular socials. I have friends who organise an indoor Soccer Competition annually for an evangelistic event, because that was the only idea they had to get a few dozen non-christian blokes together in the same room

I think on the whole there are a lot of men out there who want to be more involved but can’t see a way for them to be more involved.

We have Nerds Ministry where I worship. I don’t attend the nights, not because I’m too cool to be a nerd but because it’s for bloke-nerds.
Once a month or so a group of bloke-nerds watch a nerd-film and/or play computer nerd-games until all hours. These blokes aren’t interested in playing sports or drinking beer or tinkering with motors or any of the things that we assume blokes will enjoy. They like computer games and off beat movies. I suspect that pizzas and copious quantities of coca cola are also consumed. I think they are mostly in the 20-30 year age range.

nice idea (not for me though)

On the comment - if that’s all you are doing at church, singing effiminately and getting bored with the sermon, then of course its a crappy morning. Church does work a lot better for the guys if they take ownership of their congregation, and demonstrate some interest in the overall direction of their community.

It IS rewarding to see some criticism and some suggestions listened to, and acted on, by the church hierarchy. If something sucks, a man should feel that he can pull the minister aside and say so; and a wise minister would get the critical bloke to put their money where their mouth is and support any change.

We had a real shakeup yesterday and it was extremely well regarded. The call for fresh ideas was heard, and it is really positive to see our ministry team try to shake things up and make a positive difference each year.

God expects certain things from men. Maybe its time the Diocese stopped worrying about how to attract men, and just worry about growing men to be more like Jesus? That’s going to attract more people than bread and circuses :)

“I have friends who organise an indoor Soccer Competition annually for an evangelistic event”

Can you explain to me what “Soccer” is?, becuase I’m British.

Soccer ......... A game played on a rectangular field with net goals at either end in which two teams of 11 players each try to drive a ball into the other’s goal by kicking, heading, or using any part of the body except the arms and hands. The goalie is the only player who may touch or move the ball with the arms or hands.
[From alteration of assoc., abbreviation of association football.]

Thanks Ken - that description sounds very much like you’re describing football. :-)

Duncan, it’s easy to distinguish between different types of football.
Soccer: a game for gentlemen played by thugs
Rugby: a game for thugs played by gentlemen
League: a game for thugs played by thugs
AFL: <undefined>

Chris Little - 18 November 2008 12:05 PM

AFL: <undefined>

AFL: a game for men played by gentle thugs?

Jim Wackett - 17 November 2008 10:29 AM

The experience we are offering blokes at ‘church’ is very different to the one we offer at these great blokes ‘events’.

That is absolutely true and I don’t think many people realise it. Church *is* an experience - encouraging people to get involved in making that experience happen might be helpful for a few, but the majority of men in a church service are still going to be pew sitters.

Getting people involved in stuff that happens outside of church just makes church a more socially enjoyable experience, in that you might have met a few people before.

The quoted person who found it too hard to get to church with his family etc is just doing the sums - what it costs to get to and from church isn’t worth the effort for what he gets out of it. That says a lot. Now if he was introduced to other people at social events, it may make it worth the effort from a social perspective, but that’s still tangential to the actual church experience.

Church is, for the most part, singing songs and being preached at. To me, it’s a wonder that any/many guys go as often as they do.

Seriously, who (in the secular world) sings? Who listens to some guy talk about stuff that may not be particularly relevant or easily understood (there’s often so much assumed knowledge), or isn’t even missed if he doesn’t go? If you know you don’t miss it, why would you return?

I get the impression that some people believe that the church has a duty to put on an entertaining church service. When I see guys be more involved I don’t mean just the Sunday Service either. Perhaps you can put together a committee on men’s ministry

I understand the issue of Church is not about “entertainment”.  I agree Church should be about Jesus.  That is the whole point of Church, it should be about Jesus and lets not forget Jesus was no whimp. He took the blows we deserved and stood up against the bureaucratic ramblings of the synagogue leaders who had forgotten what they were there for.  God leaves people on earth for two reasons firstly to show his mercy, secondly to give people time to repent and return to him.  As his people we are hear to show God’s work in this world and to be instruments of his to save the lost.

Sure, but it is easy to say “Men” are the problem they do not get involved, etc etc that is a cop out really.  Some people do not see the problem with the way Church Services are run because they are already “comfortable” with the way thing are.  It is not surprising that the “entertainment” argument comes up because the person espousing it are comfortable and deep down do not see a reason to change. Why would they if they are happy as it is?

Luke is right, look around in all the events Men get deeply involved in general society, how many involve singing, or holding hands (in group pryaer), the answer is almost none.  There was a stage when women felt so left out of society that they formed movements of change to change the way things were.  Whilst I am not a “Men’s Movement” sort of guy I can understand the reasons.  We have to be getting Men into places where we can preach the Gospel to them and connect them into the body of Christ.  If this requires a change then so bet it. We have Churches set up for different Ethnicities all over Sydney because there was a need.  This need exists for men, let’s recognise the issue and not deny it and then work in God’s strength and spirit to bring Men back to him.  An old a wise preacher said to me once “ Get the women and you may get some of the children, get the Man and you get the whole family”